Hospitable CEO: How we Manage $5B in Annual Reservations

I didn't go to short-term rental school. I basically stumbled upon it by accident. My accident was that I was renting a flat with my own housemate. And so I had this gigantic flat. One of my pet peeves. I absolutely hate to be repeating myself. Basically, how odd can it be? 9 years later, 20,000 customers, hundreds of thousands of properties, and today they are on track to pass $5 billion. That created a lot of anger in the industry. How far can you take Hospitable? I'm going to

be pedantic. You cannot run a short-term rental operation without Well, welcome back to the short-term rental riches podcast. I'm happy you're here again and I'm excited to be sitting next to PC. He is the CEO of one of the industry's largest software programs. Hundreds of thousands of properties are using Hospitable. And together, those properties are on track to earn over $5 billion in revenue in the coming years. So, you guys have a massive, massive presence in the space, PC. I'm excited to jump into some details

with you today. Thank you, Tim. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be talking about everything that's going on in the industry. There is a lot going on and there has been a lot going on in the almost 10 years now since you started Hospitable. Why don't we back up a little bit and just give the the backstory here? Yeah. I love telling about telling something about the story because it's not like anyone can contradict me on basically that happened. But yeah, just like you,

I didn't go to short-term rental school. I basically stumbled upon it by accident. My accident was that I was renting a flat with my own housemate. I burnt out. And so I had this gigantic flat for myself. It was just early 2014. That was when Airbnb started booming in Europe. And so I said, "Okay, you know what? I'm going to make some money. I'm going to host a few guests from all around the world. Now, the setup was pretty modest. Okay, I'm the smallest self-manager that

could possibly exist, a private room, one couch, and I was definitely staying on the property. And yeah, I started it as scaled it in terms of intensity and depth. I only had like maybe one night available per month and it was actually my depressed night because I didn't know what to do because I was conditioned on everything else, having guest, checking in or some cleaning to do. And then at some point, yeah, I wanted to automate that workload. One of my pet peeves I I absolutely

hate to be repeating myself. It's not something that particularly goes with my job. It's not a trait that's particularly appreciated. But the thing that I worked on is basically how can I make sure that I never send the same message twice and I really believe that there was a better way. What would be my practice, which is copy pasting a message and making an error on the first name of the guest. So I would basically make mistakes when sending messages or dropping some entirely. And yeah,

that's that basically coincided with the moment when I stopped hosting cuz turns out I was building the software to be running this kind of messaging automation and I had to stop hosting because I was basically developing day in day night and day and night and I was screaming. I was very vocal whenever there was a bug or problem. So it turns out it's not exactly the most hospitable of experiences to be screaming at 2 in the morning because there is a bug and then you need

to fix. I love that. And yeah, that's howitable then gold smart BNB started. So it was just a way for me to fix my own problem, my own laziness of not having to send one other message and yeah some other people I find this valuable. So now 9 years later and we're recording end of October and the end of October basically it will be the 9th anniversary of hospitalitable with 9 years in industry and yeah now basically around 20,000 customers hundreds of thousands of properties that

are connected to hospitalitable last year indeed $4.6 billion in customer payouts which is an amazing success for our customers and today they are on track to pass $5 billion. Yeah, it's a it's an awesome story and you really do just have a massive massive impact on the industry. Billions of dollars of revenue coming from all those properties and hundreds of thousands of properties. That is a lot and I know you didn't start out with hundreds of thousands of properties. You recognized some of those problems not

wanting to send the same things over and over. Tell us just a little bit more about that journey. How did you guys grow so quickly? I don't know if it was that was quick. I think it could always be quicker. It could always be faster. The thing is when you're an entrepreneur, they there there is basically one common question that basically comes up with all the entrepreneurs that I meet is basically faced with any kind of problem challenge basically how hard can it be? And basically

this is what driving a lot of entrepreneurs basically to build this thing and find out over time. In my case, I was very naive. I didn't understand this market. I didn't know anything about it. In fact, when I launched Hospitable, I didn't even know that property management companies would exist. I thought there would be more people like me that would have one property on the side that maybe would find something to be valuable. And then I figured that, oh wait, there's actually people that are actually

doing this professionally that are very interested in in what I'm doing. That's basically open open the market a little bit. I think for a long time, I was definitely not the smartest person in the room. I was absolutely the dumbest of them all because there was a lot for me to be learning about the industry and especially of so many people have different perspective on it and they expect to have some kind of a templating sometime a guide in the software or some would rather challenge

it entirely and I know basically there's also the way to build a company in a software in software company or tech company that basically is very distributed so our team for example is completely remote completely distributed across the world but also with a customer base that's basically around 140 countries to date and growing indeed with different type of customers. So some that definitely I think it's a trade that we have and I really I'm really attached to it that we are very happy to be your

first PMS is that we have the majority of our customers are what we call self managers that have one two up to seven properties that they manage on their own without any kind of property management company. So obviously with different levels of involvement but also a growing share of property managers that basically for whom we want to be the last PMS that they ever have to use taking into account owner statements with entire AI tools and workflows to basically help them automate and manage more of

their business automatically. So there there's always some kind of a challenge that comes up. I think in my life for the past nine years there was always a bit of a reset every six months where the job is changing. The mission needs to be changing and all of a sudden it starts to be again like a big reset on I need to learn all the things that I didn't know I had to do but now I have to do them and there's nobody else in the

company that may be able to achieve this with the level that I expect and then basically off on board other people to progressively take take all those problems with them while I can still supervise and see how things are how things are going. That's the there's a the story of growth is basically you figure a lot of things out you have to be to learn a lot to be open-minded that's the obviously when you entrepreneurs are more akin to more interested in learning and discovering new

things that you would have in experts in the industry that would tell you oh things are working and they would never be challenging anything the idea of creating what then I discovered would be called a property management software for property owners is something that's completely an oxymoron like why are you doing this there is no I don't think that could be successful and I think now we demonstrated actually it can have a big market presence. I think we have a significant market share now on Airbnb

on Verbo not yet on booking but it's a massive organization and it's it can be done and then there is a lot of dynamics that basically are unique to usable that this is unlocking and after 9 years we're now starting to see a lot of the opportunities that it creates for our customers and and for us as a business as well. I'm curious. You mentioned you guys have about 20,000 users, hundreds of thousands of properties, and the economy things have shifted a lot over the last

years. We know after co a lot of people ran out and wanted a vacation rental. What are you guys seeing in terms of your user base? Are you seeing like the same amount of individual users pop up or are you seeing a lot of your existing users adding more and more properties? than like a property manager if we're doing our job right both I don't think it's antical for one another I think the general is that on the what we would call the long tail so

they're basically self-managers or owner operators sometimes I'm hearing them but I like the self-manager that are running their own operation this is a massive massive number basically can estimate around 5 million host that have basically up to seven properties which is a point where there's basically The breakdown show that there is a complete different distribution on the business model and no true software is really connecting with this particular audience like something that is easy to use that is not looking like a full-time job that actually

is working for you so that you can have a full-time job on the side or more time to be spending with your family which is literally the problem that our customers are looking to solve which is the stories of my demos when I was doing sales is always the same is basically you have this kind of alert from Airbnb that comes out at dinner time and everybody's looking at you and what are you doing and you grab your phone because you have this kind of sense

of urgency of I need to respond to this guest right now. There there is a good reason why this is not something that is always going to be sustainable in all families and across all dinner tables. But you also have the kind of drain that it takes whenever you are for example working a great job in New York but have a property in Nashville, Tennessee and all of a sudden you have all the complexities of doing the remote management that comes into play when you need

the boots of the ground or there may be time zone differences where you need a lot of setup to basically allow you to focus on what you want to be focusing on. Now over time we've been successful and our customers have been successful in growing their inventory and realizing the simple trick is that once you start automating a lot more task on the general operation side definitely on the guest experience side now all of a sudden adding another property doesn't sound like a lot of work

and we have so many customer stories like this of customers that have started with us maybe eight years ago that had one property just the one then added another one or another breakdown of a different combination of their listings and then they help out a friend. That sounds common story to everybody in the street. You help out a friend, you have a neighbor, you have somebody that heard about you and now you can do it and you can plug it to your software and it doesn't

sound like more work because there is an incremental level but not re you have an outsized benefit compared to the to the work that you are doing and all of a sudden you're launching a coasting business. You may be launching a property management business that have multiple components around it. I think the best acquisition path we have proven so far for in our case has been historically that we are turning those best sales managers into property managers in their own right and they're scaling their properties

as much as we are basically growing our features in more depth so that we can support them on their scale and on their growth. Now the story has changed a little bit. We believe we can actually be really focused also on working with property managers that may have some experience with a property management software but wants a property management software that's going to be innovating for them that for example has no problem investing in AI and basically they're investing in AI investing in a better experience

because then if you are on someone's payroll to be running or you are the owner of the property management company software should be easy should not be something that you have to battle through and it should be a delight to be using and that's because we have this focus on the self-managers that definitely are not on peril to be using our software. That means we have an obligation to ensure that the experience is going to be absolutely crisp, nice and very productive, not overwhelming you with

all the complexity. That makes me feel like we're asking sometimes short of us to to run space shuttle with all the different buttons, all the different fields, all the different upload etc for different channels. And actually, no, that's not the way that's not the way to do software in 2025. And so we we're demonstrating that several times. We demonstrated that this year for example with so many features that we are releasing always with a bit of a hospitalitable flavor as well. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that's the

reality. There's just a million different things for a property owner or property manager to do. The more properties you have, the more of those things there are to do. So, I couldn't imagine managing properties without a PMS program. And so, I know it's obvious in your guys' numbers, you guys are just helping out in a tremendous way. But also, we know that the PMS programs, at least right now, you might have a different opinion, they can't handle everything. Or maybe they can, but they can't do

everything perfectly. I'm curious how you might how how do you guys balance you know what you're building with hospitalitable against what already exists just in example maybe a price labs or an air DNA for revenue management and statistics with what you guys are doing in house yeah that's a very good question because obviously I think over time in the industry yeah a property management software means a lot of things and pretty much nothing at the same time and you add this kind of linguo started coming

up about a all-in-one property management software and we want to leave the veil and actually what is it what is it done behind I think in the reality of it and I think that's what you're pointing to that a lot of property management software are doing a bit of the minimum job in every category that may not quite 100% resonate with 100% of the users and then they delegate the rest of the work to an API marketplace with third party point solution providers that basically are

able to do a better job than the property manual software on those things. And there is a lot that we basically we've been releasing as a company about basically the dynamics of those relationships and know actually they're very extractive in that other property manual software for example charge fees to list those companies on the marketplaces which means ultimately they trap them into providing a subpar service with subpar acquisition for example. The approach that we have be and it's probably be also driven by the customer persona

that we resonate with the most which are people that want to have a great experience is that we have an opportunity to consolidate streamline and make things make sense across the board and we've been quite maybe quite aggressive on this. So for example, dynamic pricing, we know it's absolutely a core need like you cannot run today in 2025 a shortterm rental operation without any demic pricing whatsoever. In our customer base, I think we're really shocked to discover that there was about 40% of users that didn't

have any dynamic pricing software connected to them. So the reality of it is that it's actually the number one dynamic pricing at hospitalitable back in in March was basically zero dynamic pricing software provider. So we have in this case a bit of an obligation to act because if you're not having dynamic pricing, you're not responding to customer demands. You're not optimizing neither you're optimizing neither revenue nor occupancy. So what exactly is happening your stuff? And we end up with a lot of people that actually end

up spending a lot of time on things that they don't want to spend the money for, but they actually would be a benefit, but it's tomorrow. They fix they fix it tomorrow. So what we've done is that we've partnered with revenue management companies. We bought a lot of data to basically run a dynamic pricing algorithm that actually you can buy on the market and actually may be a customer of those same kind of companies. But we made it so that the experience is going to be

a lot simpler because the first go to market are those people that don't have any dynamic pricing software at all and in the case of a customer base for example already a very meaningful opportunity and then over time we can add layers and complexity but not thought of layers on the cake. Basically, we have already anticipated what we want to do and build an experience that are going to be a lot better to use that is a lot more satisfactory. It's not working for your software,

but your software gets to work for you with everything. So, it starts with a bit of yeah the first the beginning of a bridge and then you end up basically working more along the way. But it there was basically a sense basically what we wanted to do fundamentally hospitalitable started because we transformed one PM when one classic PMS feature as a product we were able to do a little bit more on the messaging automation than anyone else in the industry that put us on the map

and that actually attracted people to switch to hospitalable as their source of truth at their the master software to be running the operation. So the lesson of everything that we're doing is basically that the devil is in the details and in the execution and that if you cover just that bit more scope you will actually create a great opportunity to be working with hospitalable and grow with it. One other case like this is for example the way we do direct bookings which is very different than

everybody else in the industry. I think if you look at any other property management software it's going to be about I want to have a great looking website. I want to take bookings. I want to take payments and I want to receive the cash and basically have the rest of the logic coming in to pay for every direct reservation maybe with some difference maybe but the idea is maybe not that much in our case we decide we thought the same that basically it will be about

a greatl looking website and there are some greatl looking website templates that basically kind of resositable that part is basically like table stakes but the thing that we realize is what actually makes it complex is actually all the longtail problems that come with processing payments months on the internet for high value transactions that are getting cancelled at a 9 to 10% rate with chargebacks that are immensely valuable on which you have taxes. And let me be clear, nobody nobody that wants to go direct wants to

deal all of a sudden at discovering lodging taxes etc. because the booking platform has done a great job of streamlining everything. So there's a problem that both try to solve when going direct, which is I want more ownership of a relationship with my guest that may result in fewer commission so I can make more money out there. But it's never been I want to take far more risks online for processing payments from strangers with fraudulent credit cards be liable for the chargebacks when basically I hosted

I've hosted a group of 20 people that have zero protections on and I've never verified the ID. And so for a customer base like ours, it was an absolute constellation trap. Every single issue that would have happened between with a guest coming from a direct booking would end up in the early days into a customer completely consospitable because it's our fault. We enabled it. And so we decided, you know what, we're going to change it completely. We're going to become a merchant of record. And that

means whenever a guest is booking on a hospitable host, it's actually they pay hospitable. That's a larger magnitude of things. So we can extract better terms to everybody. So we are taking all the payment processing cost they are ours all the payment processing liabilities basically ours. So you have a charge back that's us to defend and that means we have a good track record of this like we're winning 70% of our chargebacks which is I think unheard of in industry with high value transaction. We are

also able to manage all the underwriting. There is a specific there are specific rules on in the payment card industry about travel, hospitality, lodging and so for example just right now strip has changed their rules about payment processing this industry and receive notification about account X is getting restricted account is being terminated just because of the ongoing compliance requirements that you need to do to basically keep your stripe account strip not liking high-risk transactions. So we operate it, we offer the ID verification, the insurance completely

included. You don't have to think about the vendor. We negotiated those things directly. You can and we also gradually but it's accelerated. It's accelerating. We are calculating and remitting lodging taxes in more states uh every few months. So that does mean you are able to have the same experience as what you like in a booking platform at a very reduced rate while still having total ownership on the relationship with your guest. And I think the wake up moment for us was definitely you're referring to times

but COVID everybody was traumatized because Airbnb decided to promote most reneg on their terms of service cancelling all subscription all reservations and but that's not the terms you have reward the terms yourself and you not even it that created a lot of anger in the industry and so here this is exactly what you have you have all the opportunities of going with a direct booking website with your brand with the ability to take lower fees and make more money down your own bottom line but with

none of the liabilities or seriously reduced ones because we are taking care of the ID verification we have a team that's reviewing guest you have the insurance that's kind of securing your property up to $5 million and you're having this back to your question about basically the evolution of property management software and everybody wants to be an all-in-one master of none this is the kind of solution where actually you can end up with a much more compelling product that resonates a lot more with a particular

part of the audience I'm not saying this product would be beneficial to a giant like Asago. They have built the experience themselves and we have for those also a different path where they can do their own meth of record. No problem at all. They know what they doing. But my mom I would not I would don't want to explain to my mom how payments work on the internet and know basically yeah you will have bad people that have bad credit cards that will basically want to

start your property and they will actually store a charge back a little bit later on against against your property and that can be a dramatic situation of course. So this is you can have a full integrated solution without having something all the more complex just so to speak and you still have something okay I'm doing it and I didn't have to figure out all the rest all the things. I think that's a good segue into AI maybe because that's a dream in for many people I

think with AI is that they don't actually have to know how to use the software or respond to guests or do things like these in the future if AI can do it on their behalf. It's really awesome that you guys have the insight on the back end to see what people are actually connected to. If it's not something that you guys have currently built out, are they connected to a revenue management platform or not? That's really good insight. And yeah, I do I think that is

like an obligation almost to to create a revenue management tool because if you're not using one these days, as you said, you're falling really far behind into AI and I know this has been part of your DNA for a long time. Where do you see it going? How far can you take hospitalitable and automations and artificial intelligence? I kind of think that's the wrong way. I'm going to be pedantic. No, I think a lot of companies right at least maybe at some point are challenging themselves

to wonder how far can it go and it kind of ends up with something that sometimes can be a little bit gimmicky and that's what I've seen for example ourselves as a company in a lot of software that basically using AI to almost have a good slide in a pitch deck to a board meeting to say we are AI enabled or AI natives it doesn't fix any particular problem so it basically is a thing to make you feel good about the fact that you're kind of

working on AI I think among those gimmicks Like for example, you can have an update for the listing title. Yeah, you're going to Yeah, sure. Like the time it took to basically do it the time it took to to get you to build the feature should have been spent somewhere else. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's more what are the problems that in the experience of a user of a host can be boosted, altered, made more delightful because of there is this kind of AI assist coming in.

So there is definitely for example the messaging part obviously this we said it was part of our DNA back in 2017 we were the first to have an AI flow now exus it's not the same AI that's what we're talking about this was basically what's called a classifier so you basically categorize different questions from the guest so if you had a question about Wi-Fi you basically would have the answer that's something that's still reliable and still being used by customers today the path of generative AI

is being able to is the power of generative AI is able to be creating synthetic meth messages ies that resonate quite well with everything that is part of the flow conversation with the knowledge of your property and all the other conversation that you've been having. So it's something that we released already several months ago and we're having massive traffic. So basically the top users property managers that basically are using AI which is actually just now just a in many case a button like suggest with AI

where we can basically hit a button we generate the message for you that will analyze obviously all the conversation or listing reservation information but also all the prior messages and all the information that are part of your knowledge where you can upload a lot of documents and PDFs that basically are helping with understanding everything. Obviously, it's all going to be in your tone of voice because those this is based on existing messages that are that are being already been sent organically. So, it compounds on the

already existing knowledge and that resonates quite well with basically what you have 60% of users of top users of our inbox basically send a message as is and then we're starting to count the characters that they have as a difference. That's when you end up with a bit of an Nike effect is basically if you do it yourself, you basically feel prouder about the thing that you built. So you want to say, "Oh, I have this little thing extra." It's not necessarily that thing is wrong.

It's just that it's almost like you want to feel like you actually it's yours. Yeah. And so there's basically a long tail to distribution that basically you can expect 80% of users that basically will send a message as close to as is without necessarily a lot of impact there. We've also released I think a few months ago inbox AI. So they're basically our product that entirely automates the flow that has instruction for escalations that is able to build upon all the knowledge and determine the risk

level for example to make sure that we only give answers with a certain level of confidence that obviously was working amazingly well. The problem is the human in the loop in that for example you have instructions to do things but it's for example the instruction makes sense to a human but you can appreciate how the AI maybe understanding something. One of the case that we had recently is for example, okay, is the pool eated? No, we have clear documentation that the pool and the pool is

is not eated. But the AI wanted to almost respond in a cheeky way because it got that vibe from the voice of the host and so it replied the pool is sunated that varies according to seasons and that's why it may be chilly in in cold times. It's like you're almost being cheeky and arrogant. So we treated that as a bug and we tried to investigate what can we do better down the road. That was a bit of that was a bit of a prompt that

yeah could appreciate how the AI would be understanding something that maybe on the verge of this that those are things that basically we we look at to basically find this is actually too smart to come up with something like this but so yeah that's what we want to do. I was talking a bit earlier about the gimmicks. I think there is still plenty of room for the to enable user experiences that have not been particularly optimized for. One of the project that basically we we're just

working on right now is just the flow to create your listings. And I think the point of creating a listing is actually not about getting a new listing on the platform. It's actually to get bookings. Cra, incredible idea. And the way you do this is in the beginning when you have an empty slate, you need to give it some flavor. You need to give it a soul. Otherwise, it's just a bag of pictures and checkboxes with amenities and an AI generated title. That's probably slop. So,

we're really having fun now really literally about having more prompts to basically what's your special sauce? what is actually the thing that you like about listing that makes it special for you. It's not an information that's ever going to be deployed distributed over to another listing but it's something that give it a little bit more flavor so that when we are going to create listing caption after analyzing the picture we're actually going to use that line to present a caption that's going to be making more

sense. We're going to use that theme all across the board when we generate a listing and then yeah you may want to have your own things do it with voice. I think we've seen vocal interfaces everywhere because it's actually so much more practical. And I think we have our voice AI. So for example, if you can dictate, you can tell basically with the message that you want to say. It's something that I use myself even professionally outside of shutter rental because simply it's so good. You

can actually instruct it to run instruction do research. So it's a kind of an omnibus instrument to to have something else think thinking for you, extracting things out of you with all the knowledge across your entire hospitalitable account. So it's going to be really good. Then you can actually craft it and say, "Okay, I want to make that to be more engaging, more hospitalitable and basically start working on different variations in a way that the pain of creating a property, the pain of creating a listing

almost goes away because you have this kind of more intuitive, very interesting, more playful experiences that you can actually test things out and make it make more fun." But there are some things that for example ourselves internally we can also thought okay this is pushing the AI level a little bit too much which would be for example let's have the pictures and then we want to find out the amenities that are in it so that we can cross the check box problem it takes 10 minutes

to basically process everything make a map consolidate it just get the checkbox just do the check box it's going to be so much faster it's not going to cost millions and it actually would still feel good compared with the standards unfortunately on the industry on the user experience so there The is there I think there is going to it's more and more powerful but there are still parts where we can focus on that actually make a difference. What's the special sauce? Who do you want to

work? Who is the ideal guest that you want to secure? What are the different kind of avatars and personas that you actually have the best experience? Actually, we can tell you that and now you can probably propose a rewriting or rewrite of your property details of your listing description to make it resonate. I'm talking about this because it's I'm deep in the weeds on this particular project which I believe is really interesting because it's building the landfield management for the next 10 years whether or next

5 years rather than basically just okay here are 15 fields that you need to populate on booking.com go ahead and do it which is secretarial job that no one is particularly excited to be going for but I'm very excited about AI I think there is a lot more that you will be able to do I just think the challenge is less and less on the technology is more on how do we make it practically useful beneficial for everybody Yeah, it's exciting. I'm excited to see what

you guys come out with. Sounds like you you're already working on a whole bunch of great things to to just make it easier for us out here. A lot of people that tune in to the channel PC or We've got a big range, I think. But there's a lot of people that maybe still haven't got their first short-term rental or they just got it and maybe they just signed up with Hospitalitable and they're like trying to figure out all the things. Knowing that and then also

that the industry's changed a lot over the last decade. It's gotten more challenging. The host or the guest standards have gotten higher. What do you think it takes to run a successful short-term rental these days? I think there is always a lot of tension in this industry between standardization and the differentiation. It's definitely something that I think maybe always existed but now it's basically you have to kind of almost pick a lane. I find that for example with our conversation with the booking platforms there's a

lot of conversations about reducing something like trip issues. making sure that the quality of service is there and is at a professional standard. It's a professional standard of care. I think it's the right direction in the industry that basically you want to have it's a professional occupation. People are paying very meaningful amounts for the hospitality for staying at a short-term rental and you cannot go at it with an opinionated direction on how things should be and expecting things from guests. I think we often forget we

are working as an industry for those customers for those guests and everything that we built is are built on those guests and sometimes it's a bit difficult to hear some maybe some more extreme cases where that's not the case. So there is a lot of effort in the industry for professionalizing standardizing the experience and that's very often coming up as a booking platform challenging what it means to be a host. I also personally have never found great OS that have maintaining great quality of care to

be ever negatively impacted by those kind of changes and I think that's been the case for several booking platforms in the past few months in an industry that has been undergoing a lot of changes to booking platform platform policies. It's something to be understood is that to be understood is that obviously everybody wants to have great host and want to be able to display that they have the best quality the best host with a lot of trust happening being delivered to the guest. And on the

other side you have you don't want to nobody wants to work on truck rentalals in a completely hygienic copy paste kind of way. You want to have a soul. You want to have some place that's going to be unique some experience going to be very differentiated. And I find often that yeah when I book for an Airbnb myself is just what am I picking for? It's always the place that have a little bit of character when there is always that little bit of extra touch of

care, that little bit of generosity that may not be costing that much, but it's just basically that extra thing. Fresh oranges, a set of flowers, you know, I don't have a rockstar list of things to look at, but just basically that tells me this person in the right industry and I'm feeling a bit pumped. So that those are those kind of things and nobody has an answer on what differentiation is like because it has something that needs to be easy to you. in my case for

my own Airbnb operation and I can say it was an Airbnb operation because it was only on Airbnb. Don't do that at home now in 2025. But that's basically what I wanted to have is so I'm a living host. A lot of people are going to see that as a problem. Maybe rightly I wanted to have a bit of time and a bit of connection with with those guests. And the thing that I often join doing is basically I'm going to offer them beer testing. We're

in Belgium. I'm going to make you test eight nine 10 beers. It's not going to be big bottles big things. Okay. So it was not let's get drunk. It was definitely very funny. We had a lot of fun. But the there was basically this kind of moment where you get to find out about everyone else's life and and another and have a moment that basically is bit moreospitable than just a normal delivery of an accommodation service. And I think that gave it all. That's what made

me happy that what made me feel like basically I was doing a good job and that I spent a lot of time with guests. So I can view pictures of them and I know ex I still remember basically what was happening in their lives, what we were talking about, how vivid those kind of things are. That's definitely a hands-on approach. But I think what makes sense is basically going a little bit on that unreasonable hospitality that basically you can offer. And I could not offer that

at the beginning. I offered that offered something very different just when I got started. But after time I realized, okay, this is the thing that resonates with me. I can do this and I'm actually having fun. I'm a good a good little clown. So I can basically make people laugh a little bit. So that's that's the kind of parts that I think are important. You don't want to [ __ ] it up, but at the same time, you want to operate something that's gonna have a

soul and looks like you, sound like you. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. No, no one likes to feel like just another tick on the reservation sheet. And that's the trick. Figuring out how to offer that hospitality, but also make sure that everything on the back end is meeting expectations. And hospitalitable clearly helps hundreds of thousands of properties to do that. I know there's a whole bunch of things that we could dig into and I would love to. So, we're going to have to have you back on

the show, PC. But where can people find out find Hospitable and get connected? Sure. I think the best is to visit our website. We have a totally different new marketing website. We spent a lot of work, spent a lot of time into it. So, it's onable.com. I'm going to say it again because my French accent is often coming in the way, but that'sable.com. And if you want to send me an email uh or if you want to get in touch with the team to basically ask

your questions and maybe get a demo, best path would be to send me an email directly so that you're jumping ahead of the queue. That's going to be at pcospitable.com. So that's my own email and you anybody can use it for any reason and I pleasure to move it to the right person and sometimes that will be me. Awesome. Awesome. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks for your time. Lots of good insights and we're excited to see where you continue to take hospitalitable. Thank you. Thank you

team for having me.